The Quirky Brain Coach Podcast

Season 1, Episode 6: Procrastination 101...and a compassionate model for helping

This episode explains what procrastination is and isn't, tells you about my experiences with it, offers a model for reflecting on and addressing procrastination, and helps you consider if/how you might apply it for yourself - all while taking a very compassionate and kind perspective. 
Note: because perfect is the enemy of done and I believe in progress and not perfection, this episode has a couple of small editing glitches. In the interests of meeting my goals, I decided to put out this episode anyway because it will help people - but I will re-record it at a later date. The transcript can be found further down.
If this podcast helps you, consider making a one-off contribution of £3 (only if you genuinely can) to help me with the editing costs and the time it takes to research and record these episodes. You can do so here.
You can also support this podcast by - if you need it - purchasing a copy of my meltdown information booklet and meltdown support plan template - just £3. Grab yours here. 
Finally, if you don't want to look at the whole transcript or listen to the whole episode to get the 6 steps of the 6C model for reflecting on procrastination, the 6C steps are:
1. Checking in with emotions
2. Clarity
3. Chunking
4. Commencing
5. Carrying on
6. Completing and celebrating
 
Transcript below: 
100:00:15,329 --> 00:00:16,860I'm Doctor Rebecca Jackson.
200:00:16,870 --> 00:00:18,290I'm the quirky brain coach.
300:00:18,299 --> 00:00:20,040I'm an A DH D coach,
400:00:20,049 --> 00:00:20,610coach,
500:00:20,620 --> 00:00:21,389researcher,
600:00:21,399 --> 00:00:22,940writer and podcaster.
700:00:22,950 --> 00:00:31,219I help a DH D and autistic folks with zest self-regulation and executive functioning with a dash of authenticity and compassion.
800:00:31,229 --> 00:00:32,220Along the way.
900:00:32,229 --> 00:00:37,340Today's podcast episode is all about procrastination and a model for tackling it.
1000:00:37,439 --> 00:00:38,409Let's dive in.
1100:00:42,180 --> 00:00:43,880So procrastination,
1200:00:43,889 --> 00:00:46,360it's something we all do at times.
1300:00:46,369 --> 00:00:47,000However,
1400:00:47,009 --> 00:00:48,720for some neurodivergent folks,
1500:00:48,729 --> 00:00:50,430especially the A DH D,
1600:00:50,520 --> 00:00:57,220it's something that we can often encounter noticing my procrastination was the trait that actually got me thinking,
1700:00:57,229 --> 00:00:57,639oh,
1800:00:57,650 --> 00:01:02,250I'm an A DH D all the way back in 2016 more on that shortly.
1900:01:02,259 --> 00:01:03,060In any case,
2000:01:03,069 --> 00:01:04,279in today's episode,
2100:01:04,290 --> 00:01:10,989we're looking at what procrastination is and isn't my experiences of an relationship to procrastination?
2200:01:11,099 --> 00:01:19,389A six step model that I use to help myself and clients reflect on procrastination and how you can apply that model along the way.
2300:01:19,400 --> 00:01:21,750We'll be taking a compassionate lens.
2400:01:21,760 --> 00:01:23,430I know it might not feel like it yet,
2500:01:23,440 --> 00:01:30,989but procrastination is nothing to be ashamed of and it doesn't make you a garbage human if you sometimes put things off.
2600:01:31,000 --> 00:01:31,480Anyway,
2700:01:31,489 --> 00:01:33,589let's get into what procrastination is.
2800:01:37,370 --> 00:01:42,190Procrastination is about putting something off in order to come back to it later.
2900:01:42,300 --> 00:01:44,290But for some specific reasons,
3000:01:44,470 --> 00:01:45,650all humans do it.
3100:01:45,660 --> 00:01:48,610But it's very common for a DH D for example,
3200:01:48,620 --> 00:01:49,489to procrastinate.
3300:01:49,500 --> 00:01:52,930And at times for other neurodivergent people too,
3400:01:52,959 --> 00:01:57,150especially if they're low on resource or otherwise not feeling great.
3500:01:57,160 --> 00:02:00,650We all know that procrastination is about putting something off then.
3600:02:00,660 --> 00:02:03,830But do you know what the research says about why it happens?
3700:02:03,889 --> 00:02:04,968My own definition,
3800:02:04,977 --> 00:02:08,367understandings of procrastination are grounded in the research.
3900:02:08,378 --> 00:02:11,457And the way I see procrastination is as follows.
4000:02:11,677 --> 00:02:25,727Procrastinating is about putting off a task in the short term in an attempt to secure emotional relief from an unpleasant emotion that the task triggers or that you believe it will trigger if you were to engage with it,
4100:02:25,738 --> 00:02:29,938an example might help suppose I need to do some invoicing.
4200:02:29,947 --> 00:02:31,268I hate invoice,
4300:02:31,555 --> 00:02:32,785think it's hard.
4400:02:32,796 --> 00:02:33,746It's boring.
4500:02:33,755 --> 00:02:35,276I'm bad at maths.
4600:02:35,285 --> 00:02:41,235It doesn't offer immediate reward either as it takes a long time between doing the invoice and getting me paid.
4700:02:41,326 --> 00:02:44,315And I'm not that mad about money anyway as such.
4800:02:44,326 --> 00:02:46,065Although I have time to invoice,
4900:02:46,076 --> 00:02:47,386I often don't,
5000:02:47,395 --> 00:02:50,826I put it off the emotions I experience here are boredom,
5100:02:50,835 --> 00:02:52,136which is an emotion,
5200:02:52,255 --> 00:02:59,524but I also experience some anxiety because I fear I will do my invoicing wrong because of these emotions matters.
5300:02:59,533 --> 00:03:04,164I want to seek some relief and choose to do something more fun and interesting instead.
5400:03:04,264 --> 00:03:08,123So I'll go and make a podcast like this one and not do my invoicing.
5500:03:08,414 --> 00:03:10,583That's how procrastination plays out.
5600:03:10,593 --> 00:03:20,123But the example here also shows why it's a temporary and often not very effective coping mechanism when I go off and do a podcast instead of my invoicing.
5700:03:20,134 --> 00:03:22,934Do you think I'm fully enjoying the podcasting?
5800:03:22,944 --> 00:03:23,623No,
5900:03:23,634 --> 00:03:27,501I'm still thinking about the invoicing and I'm feeling guilty about it.
6000:03:27,511 --> 00:03:34,322So I'm not even enjoying the activity that I'm doing instead and I still have some of those emotions that I'm trying to avoid.
6100:03:34,361 --> 00:03:37,861Plus I still have the invoicing to come back to,
6200:03:37,871 --> 00:03:42,292I've put it off so that task is still there now for some creative tasks,
6300:03:42,302 --> 00:03:44,701a bit of procrastination is helpful.
6400:03:44,712 --> 00:03:46,582But in a case like this isn't,
6500:03:46,591 --> 00:03:50,171I still have to come back to and face up to the invoicing at some point.
6600:03:50,192 --> 00:03:56,919And it's perhaps these type of tasks that this podcast and my model might offer you most help for in any case.
6700:03:56,929 --> 00:04:02,320Although the research tells us that maybe the biggest factor in procrastination is emotions.
6800:04:02,460 --> 00:04:08,520There is a secondary factor that also plays a role and that's clarity or a lack of clarity,
6900:04:08,529 --> 00:04:09,669more specifically,
7000:04:09,679 --> 00:04:13,419we can be tempted to put off things that we don't have clarity on.
7100:04:13,589 --> 00:04:14,279In other words,
7200:04:14,289 --> 00:04:16,399when we don't know exactly what we're doing,
7300:04:16,410 --> 00:04:17,000how,
7400:04:17,010 --> 00:04:18,799why and the kicker,
7500:04:18,809 --> 00:04:20,467how long it going to take.
7600:04:20,476 --> 00:04:22,587So to come back to that example of invoicing,
7700:04:22,596 --> 00:04:28,856if I don't know how many invoices I have left and which are the oldest and I don't have the client information to hand.
7800:04:28,867 --> 00:04:33,766I don't have the clarity to engage even if I'm not feeling too emotional about it.
7900:04:33,916 --> 00:04:43,627So I will put off the invoicing and will come back to clarity later when I talk about the model for now as with all concepts that I touch on in this podcast,
8000:04:43,837 --> 00:04:50,316it can also help to know what procrastinate isn't and what is therefore unlikely to help with?
8100:04:50,325 --> 00:04:50,555It.
8200:04:50,575 --> 00:04:56,455Would it surprise you to know that procrastination is almost never an issue of time management.
8300:04:56,466 --> 00:04:57,835And in fact,
8400:04:58,045 --> 00:05:03,966using time management solutions to target procrastination often has little to no effect.
8500:05:04,196 --> 00:05:06,645When I tell people this in coaching sessions,
8600:05:06,686 --> 00:05:08,756most are very surprised.
8700:05:08,765 --> 00:05:10,645This all means that yes,
8800:05:10,656 --> 00:05:11,936there are emotions,
8900:05:11,946 --> 00:05:13,436emotional regulation,
9000:05:13,679 --> 00:05:14,350desire,
9100:05:14,359 --> 00:05:15,019motivation,
9200:05:15,029 --> 00:05:15,670clarity,
9300:05:15,679 --> 00:05:18,059all of those things will help with procrastination.
9400:05:18,170 --> 00:05:23,899But time management will either not be a factor at all or not be a big one that helps you.
9500:05:24,170 --> 00:05:27,779But I'll come back to some of those things that I have just mentioned in a bit.
9600:05:27,929 --> 00:05:33,029But the last thing to say on procrastination is that we don't actually want to demonize it.
9700:05:33,040 --> 00:05:39,029We don't want to get rid of it completely and throw the baby out with the bathwater because sometimes it does help.
9800:05:39,040 --> 00:05:40,670Sometimes it is necessary.
9900:05:40,679 --> 00:05:41,670First of all,
10000:05:41,679 --> 00:05:47,989research on creative people shows that an element of procrastination is a normal part of your brain,
10100:05:48,000 --> 00:05:51,141taking time to cook up and mull over an idea.
10200:05:51,312 --> 00:05:51,782Now,
10300:05:51,791 --> 00:05:59,252a lot of neurodivergent people class themselves as creative in some way or they might be thinkers or academics or researchers of some kind.
10400:05:59,361 --> 00:06:07,601And so these kinds of people of which I'm one actually need to procrastinate at times in order to give birth to our amazing ideas.
10500:06:07,622 --> 00:06:08,761Second of all,
10600:06:08,772 --> 00:06:11,062if a task is making you feel awful,
10700:06:11,071 --> 00:06:15,622then I do think it's sometimes the right thing to do to take a pause and regroup.
10800:06:15,753 --> 00:06:16,264It's right.
10900:06:16,273 --> 00:06:21,493If you're struggling to do something else for a short while and come back when you feel a little better,
11000:06:21,503 --> 00:06:23,544that's part of the emotional regulation.
11100:06:23,674 --> 00:06:26,273The key is to make sure you're making an informed,
11200:06:26,283 --> 00:06:29,063intentional and mindful choice if you do do that,
11300:06:29,414 --> 00:06:31,194thirdly and finally,
11400:06:31,204 --> 00:06:33,134as with all coping strategies,
11500:06:33,144 --> 00:06:39,174which procrastination is the fact that you need to procrastinate is useful information in itself.
11600:06:39,183 --> 00:06:42,885It can tell us that something isn't quite right with the task.
11700:06:42,895 --> 00:06:48,726And that gives us an opportunity to look at how we are approaching it and make any changes that we want to,
11800:06:48,825 --> 00:06:57,126so that we are more likely to engage when we choose or at least waste less time and brain power trying to force ourselves into doing things.
11900:06:57,135 --> 00:06:57,915So therefore,
12000:06:57,925 --> 00:06:58,816some people,
12100:06:58,825 --> 00:07:08,558not all but some find it helpful to appreciate their procrastination for any important signals and advice it gives through showing up in the first place for now.
12200:07:08,578 --> 00:07:12,088It might help you to know more about my own experiences.
12300:07:12,097 --> 00:07:14,088So you don't feel on your own with this.
12400:07:14,097 --> 00:07:18,798People can understandably feel very ashamed and confused about procrastinating.
12500:07:18,898 --> 00:07:26,757And many a DH D or autistic people have been shamed by others in the past for not acting quickly on things and for putting things off.
12600:07:26,768 --> 00:07:32,678So my story will hopefully help you to feel some compassion for yourself because you're really not on your own.
12700:07:32,687 --> 00:07:38,600With this back in 2016,
12800:07:38,609 --> 00:07:48,079I was working as a university lecturer and was living away from home to be able to do so I had a lot to do perhaps for the first time ever,
12900:07:48,170 --> 00:07:49,630I'd had other jobs.
13000:07:49,640 --> 00:07:55,440But my tasks and time management were tightly served to me that was all kind of taken care of.
13100:07:55,450 --> 00:08:00,299So I didn't have to use those executive functioning skills to manage my workload.
13200:08:00,309 --> 00:08:08,484I also had a lot more autonomy as a lecturer again that led to me needing to prioritize things and think about things for myself.
13300:08:08,494 --> 00:08:12,695But I also had not only more to do but less time in some respects.
13400:08:12,704 --> 00:08:15,855I wanted to keep weekends free because I wasn't living at home.
13500:08:15,864 --> 00:08:21,005So I wanted to be able to go back home and have free time to myself and with my partner at the time.
13600:08:21,015 --> 00:08:28,434And also I needed the time to travel between home and work was actually commuting between Brighton and Yorkshire.
13700:08:28,445 --> 00:08:31,054So all that really ate into my available time.
13800:08:31,410 --> 00:08:37,739I started to notice that I was putting things off big time and also to wonder why I was doing that.
13900:08:37,989 --> 00:08:38,820Nevertheless,
14000:08:38,830 --> 00:08:45,109I kind of coped in the respect that I did everything and I did it on time and I did it pretty well.
14100:08:45,119 --> 00:08:46,369It's just obvious now,
14200:08:46,380 --> 00:08:53,659knowing what I know that I must have experienced lots of anxiety and run myself absolutely ragged in the process.
14300:08:53,669 --> 00:08:54,599Still,
14400:08:54,609 --> 00:08:58,599this is tipped me off to the possibility of a DH D my procrastination.
14500:08:58,679 --> 00:09:01,340And so that's another sense in which I'm grateful for it.
14600:09:01,349 --> 00:09:02,320In some respect.
14700:09:02,330 --> 00:09:07,640I was in my office one day uh reading a book about the psychology of interest and engagement.
14800:09:07,650 --> 00:09:09,130And in one tiny footnote,
14900:09:09,140 --> 00:09:14,169there was a comment about a DH D being related to procrastination and a lack of motivation.
15000:09:14,229 --> 00:09:16,030I googled a DH D and thought,
15100:09:16,039 --> 00:09:16,409oh,
15200:09:16,419 --> 00:09:17,690that sounds like me.
15300:09:17,700 --> 00:09:19,919But on brand for a DH D,
15400:09:19,989 --> 00:09:22,820I've ended nothing with that knowledge for the next few years.
15500:09:22,960 --> 00:09:23,960At this point.
15600:09:23,969 --> 00:09:33,669I was still feeling very confused and very annoyed with myself and I felt bad about myself and I didn't know what if anything I could do about it.
15700:09:33,799 --> 00:09:35,809When I did get my diagnosis,
15800:09:35,979 --> 00:09:39,000I took the time to learn a lot about a DH D,
15900:09:39,010 --> 00:09:46,679talk to other A DH DS about it and about procrastination and also dive into the specific literature on procrastination.
16000:09:46,849 --> 00:09:47,809And once I'd done that,
16100:09:47,820 --> 00:09:49,640I felt a lot better about it.
16200:09:49,650 --> 00:09:51,109And myself,
16300:09:51,119 --> 00:09:54,630I knew that procrastination is something that all humans face.
16400:09:54,640 --> 00:10:03,030But a DH Ds in particular just may want to think about how they want to approach it and maybe having a better experience of it as well.
16500:10:03,510 --> 00:10:04,239Now,
16600:10:04,250 --> 00:10:09,950I would say that I have a much more neutral and balanced relationship to procrastination by that.
16700:10:09,960 --> 00:10:10,409I mean,
16800:10:10,419 --> 00:10:22,650I'm grateful for the messages it gives me and I see it as a signal that I need to stop change the way I'm approaching a task and make my task feel clearer and more enjoyable so I can do it if I want to.
16900:10:22,659 --> 00:10:23,210Yes,
17000:10:23,219 --> 00:10:24,799I still get annoyed by it,
17100:10:24,840 --> 00:10:28,549but I also know that fascinating can be part of my creative process.
17200:10:28,559 --> 00:10:31,710I procrastinated so many times on this recording,
17300:10:31,840 --> 00:10:32,989but I needed to,
17400:10:33,000 --> 00:10:34,989my ideas weren't fully formed.
17500:10:35,000 --> 00:10:40,510So it was right to go away and take the dog out for a walk so that I could get my ideas together.
17600:10:40,719 --> 00:10:41,109Yes,
17700:10:41,119 --> 00:10:44,940I do still have some negative feelings or discomfort when I put things off,
17800:10:44,950 --> 00:10:47,789but I don't feel bad about myself anymore.
17900:10:48,010 --> 00:10:49,849I know that when I put stuff off,
18000:10:49,859 --> 00:11:00,049it's just because the task isn't clear and motivating enough and there may be some emotions around it to process and deal with and that's just something that my A DH D brain needs to get started.
18100:11:00,080 --> 00:11:03,429It's not a moral defect and I am not lazy.
18200:11:03,440 --> 00:11:06,820I just need to spend some time getting my starting conditions right?
18300:11:06,830 --> 00:11:08,690And then I'll usually be ok.
18400:11:08,700 --> 00:11:08,969Now,
18500:11:08,979 --> 00:11:24,059my hope is that learning more about prost through this podcast and realizing you are not alone through my story and knowing that it's not a moral defect will help you not only cope better but feel better about yourself.
18600:11:24,070 --> 00:11:25,510So with all this in mind,
18700:11:25,520 --> 00:11:33,590then let me tell you about the six C model that I use to reflect on and help myself with procrastination.
18800:11:37,429 --> 00:11:42,219Take a second and identify a task that you feel you very often put off.
18900:11:42,229 --> 00:11:43,969My example was the invoicing.
19000:11:44,109 --> 00:11:45,780What's your personal example?
19100:11:45,789 --> 00:11:51,619Pick something that you'd like to be able to have a different experience of found something great.
19200:11:51,830 --> 00:11:52,380Let's see,
19300:11:52,390 --> 00:11:57,419then how the six things to consider can help you to approach it differently and maybe get it done.
19400:11:57,640 --> 00:11:59,099So as we said,
19500:11:59,419 --> 00:12:04,590procrastination is first and foremost about emotions and the avoidance of emotions.
19600:12:04,599 --> 00:12:08,330So the first C is check in with emotions,
19700:12:09,099 --> 00:12:10,820work out what you're feeling,
19800:12:10,830 --> 00:12:18,760why you're feeling it and think about something you can do to process that emotion or alleviate it in some way.
19900:12:18,770 --> 00:12:22,919This can sometimes be tricky for people who experience alexithymia,
20000:12:22,929 --> 00:12:26,609the inability to notice or label what emotions they're feeling.
20100:12:26,710 --> 00:12:32,744But there are models and channel and apps that you can use to help you with emotion identification.
20200:12:32,885 --> 00:12:38,984So just Google that stuff and you'll be able to find free practical supports that help you to work out what you're feeling and why.
20300:12:39,164 --> 00:12:42,905Once you know what emotion you are trying to avoid,
20400:12:42,914 --> 00:12:44,385then you can,
20500:12:44,395 --> 00:12:44,984as I say,
20600:12:44,994 --> 00:12:48,945do something about it and then we can move to the second C which is clarity.
20700:12:49,539 --> 00:12:54,280So I told you that a second factor in procrastination is not having enough clarity.
20800:12:54,289 --> 00:12:56,140You don't know what you need to do when,
20900:12:56,150 --> 00:12:56,880how,
21000:12:56,890 --> 00:12:57,690why,
21100:12:57,700 --> 00:12:59,650how long it will take you and so on.
21200:12:59,809 --> 00:13:05,570And so it can be a really good idea to take just a couple of minutes and find out those things.
21300:13:05,770 --> 00:13:08,000If that's something you can do on your own,
21400:13:08,010 --> 00:13:10,760say by speaking aloud or using a journal,
21500:13:10,770 --> 00:13:11,479that's great.
21600:13:11,489 --> 00:13:12,229If not,
21700:13:12,239 --> 00:13:14,000then you might need to ex steralized,
21800:13:14,010 --> 00:13:16,849you might need somebody else to hold thinking space for you.
21900:13:16,929 --> 00:13:18,239So that could be a friend,
22000:13:18,320 --> 00:13:20,630a peer or even a coach,
22100:13:20,640 --> 00:13:26,789but get clarity on what you're gonna do and get some granularity on how long it's gonna take.
22200:13:26,799 --> 00:13:26,989And,
22300:13:27,000 --> 00:13:35,150and the way you're going to do it and that coupled with a different emotional experience should help you to feel like you want to get going.
22400:13:35,250 --> 00:13:37,150The third C is chunking.
22500:13:37,469 --> 00:13:38,049Now,
22600:13:38,059 --> 00:13:42,650this part of the model is the equivalent to have you thought about buying a plumber.
22700:13:42,659 --> 00:13:44,880So do take it with a pinch of salt.
22800:13:44,890 --> 00:13:46,640But I find that it helps me,
22900:13:46,650 --> 00:13:51,489you can discard this part or craft it in your own image according to what you need.
23000:13:51,640 --> 00:13:53,770But it's still important to chunk things.
23100:13:53,780 --> 00:13:54,210OK?
23200:13:54,219 --> 00:14:00,219If I know that I have three invoices to do and they are gonna take me about 10 minutes each,
23300:14:00,229 --> 00:14:00,729then I,
23400:14:00,809 --> 00:14:05,619I could chunk that down into three slots of 10 minutes with a cheeky break in between.
23500:14:05,750 --> 00:14:10,869And I know and my brain knows that once those three chunks are dealt with,
23600:14:10,919 --> 00:14:12,679I am done with the invoicing.
23700:14:12,799 --> 00:14:14,770So check in with emotions,
23800:14:14,780 --> 00:14:18,349get yourself some clarity and break stuff down into chunks,
23900:14:18,390 --> 00:14:21,070then we are on to getting started.
24000:14:21,080 --> 00:14:21,429Ok.
24100:14:21,440 --> 00:14:32,989The fourth C is commencing and this is about doing a final check for any other emotional or motivational or even environmental barriers to getting started.
24200:14:33,000 --> 00:14:34,250Technically,
24300:14:34,260 --> 00:14:37,450if you've thought about and dealt with 1 to 3,
24400:14:37,460 --> 00:14:40,679then most times people can get going at this point.
24500:14:40,840 --> 00:14:43,030But there could be something else going on,
24600:14:43,109 --> 00:14:43,690as I say,
24700:14:43,700 --> 00:14:45,020it could be environmental,
24800:14:45,030 --> 00:14:46,789it might be sensory for some of us.
24900:14:46,799 --> 00:14:49,440Maybe there's some noise have distractions,
25000:14:49,450 --> 00:14:49,869you know,
25100:14:49,880 --> 00:14:51,309notifications coming in,
25200:14:51,409 --> 00:14:52,929there could even be unmet needs,
25300:14:52,940 --> 00:14:53,359right?
25400:14:53,369 --> 00:14:58,109You could know exactly what you're doing and you might want to do it as well,
25500:14:58,119 --> 00:15:01,219but because you're thirsty and haven't been to the toilet,
25600:15:01,229 --> 00:15:03,719you're actually not in a place where you can get started.
25700:15:03,830 --> 00:15:08,280So find out here for commencing what would make this comfortable,
25800:15:08,289 --> 00:15:09,200enjoyable,
25900:15:09,210 --> 00:15:16,710safe and interesting and build that in and make sure everything's dealt with so that you can get started with luck,
26000:15:16,719 --> 00:15:17,979you have made a start.
26100:15:17,989 --> 00:15:18,919Fantastic.
26200:15:19,369 --> 00:15:19,909Now,
26300:15:19,919 --> 00:15:22,809step five of the model is about carrying on.
26400:15:22,820 --> 00:15:24,159That's the fifth C.
26500:15:24,229 --> 00:15:24,780And for me,
26600:15:24,789 --> 00:15:26,330this is all about pacing,
26700:15:26,400 --> 00:15:27,690energy management,
26800:15:27,700 --> 00:15:33,630working in pockets or bursts of time and knowing when you are finishing as well.
26900:15:33,640 --> 00:15:39,190Also important is what you will do after a break to remember where you are.
27000:15:39,500 --> 00:15:51,659I will often not take breaks because I get into hyperfocus sometimes once I get started and I almost get afraid that if I take a break and I go away from my computer,
27100:15:51,669 --> 00:15:55,570I will come back and forget where I am and I won't be able to get back into the zone.
27200:15:55,580 --> 00:16:04,070But what you can do in it easy hack here is just to take a post it note if you're working on a computer and write down what you were working on and what you were planning to do next,
27300:16:04,080 --> 00:16:06,609like what the next step of the task was.
27400:16:06,619 --> 00:16:08,690And if you place that onto your keyboard,
27500:16:08,700 --> 00:16:15,530then you cannot help but see and pay attention to that because you have to move the post it note before you can do anything else.
27600:16:15,539 --> 00:16:17,390So with carrying on,
27700:16:17,559 --> 00:16:33,960it's all about the breaks you'll take when you will and won't work how much you're going for when you're finished and ways of coming back to things and continuing things when you do need to put things down and step away by the time you get to the end of five,
27800:16:33,969 --> 00:16:36,250you might just be done with your.
27900:16:36,260 --> 00:16:37,549That's my hope for you.
28000:16:37,609 --> 00:16:39,640And so the last part is really important.
28100:16:39,650 --> 00:16:42,400It's enjoyable and it's effective as well.
28200:16:42,409 --> 00:16:48,280We need to complete and we need to celebrate what we've done and celebrate what we've completed.
28300:16:48,830 --> 00:16:49,250So,
28400:16:49,260 --> 00:16:53,190a lot of overwhelm comes from feeling like we never finish anything.
28500:16:53,340 --> 00:16:55,849That's something that I find really hard to sit with.
28600:16:55,859 --> 00:16:57,830I can work and work and work all day.
28700:16:57,969 --> 00:17:02,090And then my to do list is just as long starting from tomorrow morning,
28800:17:02,299 --> 00:17:03,929but we do complete things.
28900:17:03,940 --> 00:17:05,290We do finish things,
29000:17:05,300 --> 00:17:09,689we just don't notice or log what we actually do achieve.
29100:17:09,699 --> 00:17:11,930And sometimes if you're a DH D,
29200:17:11,939 --> 00:17:15,050it's related to that we don't pay attention to our successes.
29300:17:15,135 --> 00:17:15,536Also,
29400:17:15,546 --> 00:17:21,026humans are weighted biologically to notice what goes wrong more than what goes right.
29500:17:21,036 --> 00:17:24,206And so we look at all the difficult stuff and think that's me.
29600:17:24,215 --> 00:17:25,095That's my life.
29700:17:25,105 --> 00:17:26,576That's how I see myself.
29800:17:26,586 --> 00:17:27,595And then we forget that.
29900:17:27,605 --> 00:17:27,725Oh,
30000:17:27,735 --> 00:17:30,715but actually I did three coaching conversations,
30100:17:30,725 --> 00:17:32,076three sets of coaching notes.
30200:17:32,086 --> 00:17:34,475I walked the dog and I cooked a meal from scratch.
30300:17:34,485 --> 00:17:38,375We have to celebrate and notice those things as well.
30400:17:38,385 --> 00:17:42,904So make sure that you log and pay attention to your successes.
30500:17:42,913 --> 00:17:43,864Um Here,
30600:17:43,874 --> 00:17:47,104my favorite intervention is called the Ta da List.
30700:17:47,193 --> 00:17:50,884Uh Many of us have endless to do lists of stuff that we need to do.
30800:17:51,034 --> 00:17:56,524But what about having a ta da list where you just write everything that you have done that can be really important.
30900:17:56,534 --> 00:17:57,543And finally,
31000:17:57,553 --> 00:18:06,264celebration is part of building healthy self concept and locking in habits and techniques that are actually helping you.
31100:18:06,274 --> 00:18:12,211If you try something like the six C model and it helps you to do a crappy task like invoicing,
31200:18:12,220 --> 00:18:16,291then you absolutely deserve to pat yourself on the back when you succeed.
31300:18:16,301 --> 00:18:20,701But also it can help to make a note of not just the fact you succeeded,
31400:18:20,711 --> 00:18:22,411but why you can say great,
31500:18:22,421 --> 00:18:23,651I did my invoicing,
31600:18:23,661 --> 00:18:24,240well done,
31700:18:24,250 --> 00:18:24,911Becky,
31800:18:24,921 --> 00:18:28,531but that worked because I applied the six C method.
31900:18:28,541 --> 00:18:30,651So next time I struggle with my invoicing,
32000:18:30,781 --> 00:18:33,970I'm gonna try the Six C method again.
32100:18:37,699 --> 00:18:41,760So that's the six CS of tackling procrastination.
32200:18:42,060 --> 00:18:45,280And within that there are some ideas for things you can try.
32300:18:45,290 --> 00:18:47,160I've already mentioned a couple of things.
32400:18:47,170 --> 00:18:50,069But when I apply the six C model,
32500:18:50,079 --> 00:18:52,010I use journaling to help me.
32600:18:52,030 --> 00:18:58,560Um Some of you will already know that I have a quite stable journaling practice that I do every day doesn't take long.
32700:18:58,569 --> 00:19:01,640But if I notice that I'm procrastinating on something,
32800:19:01,689 --> 00:19:08,760I can easily have a cup of coffee and put some music on and just journal quickly on the Six Seas and try and work out what's happening.
32900:19:08,902 --> 00:19:14,072But some of you might not like journaling or you might not have a stable journaling practice yet.
33000:19:14,083 --> 00:19:18,552That's definitely something I could help you set up through coaching to ask me if you need,
33100:19:18,652 --> 00:19:20,402but you could journal uh to,
33200:19:20,412 --> 00:19:22,032to make some progress,
33300:19:22,042 --> 00:19:24,583some of you may need to talk things through.
33400:19:24,593 --> 00:19:24,963OK.
33500:19:24,973 --> 00:19:31,593This is where peer support groups come in Facebook groups or similar uh trusted friends or family members,
33600:19:31,603 --> 00:19:34,802particularly if they're also neurodivergent in some way.
33700:19:34,812 --> 00:19:36,605And they can with you,
33800:19:36,686 --> 00:19:38,605it can help to talk things through.
33900:19:38,735 --> 00:19:39,286Now,
34000:19:39,296 --> 00:19:46,115if you're the type of person who doesn't like to talk to other people or it takes a lot of energy from you,
34100:19:46,206 --> 00:20:00,406then you can actually download something like Otter an app which is free for 10 hours a month and you can actually speak into Otter your thoughts about the task that you're procrastinating on and the Six C model.
34200:20:00,446 --> 00:20:05,098And not only will the act of talking potentially help you figure out your thoughts,
34300:20:05,208 --> 00:20:09,548but you'll also get a transcript with a summary free of charge for up to 10 hours.
34400:20:09,558 --> 00:20:17,129And that could be useful as a record for you to come back to when you're trying to remember how you're looking to help yourself.
34500:20:17,139 --> 00:20:17,798Then of course,
34600:20:17,808 --> 00:20:26,798the other thing you can do is bring something like the six C model into a coaching situation or if appropriate a therapy situation,
34700:20:26,899 --> 00:20:30,432you can use it in your discussions with helping professionals.
34800:20:30,442 --> 00:20:30,932So yeah,
34900:20:30,942 --> 00:20:31,972use it on your own,
35000:20:31,982 --> 00:20:33,192use it with others,
35100:20:33,202 --> 00:20:37,011but even just by listening to this episode and reflecting on it,
35200:20:37,021 --> 00:20:41,332hopefully some stuff has started to shift already.
35300:20:41,381 --> 00:20:42,612So there you have it.
35400:20:42,621 --> 00:20:45,761That is our podcast on procrastination.
35500:20:45,901 --> 00:20:49,251And what we've talked about is what procrastination isn't.
35600:20:49,261 --> 00:20:50,852According to the research,
35700:20:50,862 --> 00:20:56,875we've talked about my experience of and relationship to procrastination and how I feel about it.
35800:20:57,015 --> 00:20:57,935And hopefully,
35900:20:57,944 --> 00:21:03,714this has helped you to think a bit more kindly and compassionately towards yourself about this topic.
36000:21:03,724 --> 00:21:05,935I've taught you through my six step model,
36100:21:05,944 --> 00:21:15,805the six C model that I use to help myself and others and which you now if you wish can use on your own or with support to help you tackle stuff that you're putting off.
36200:21:15,944 --> 00:21:16,224So,
36300:21:16,234 --> 00:21:17,935thank you very much for listening.
36400:21:17,944 --> 00:21:19,604I've been Doctor Rebecca Jackson,
36500:21:19,614 --> 00:21:22,974the quirky brain coach and I will see you on the next episode.
 

Episode 5: Burnout and neurodivergence - and how to support yourself if you choose

I'll copy and paste the transcript below.
If you'd like to support this podcast, you can make a one-off or monthly small payment (only if you can afford) on the following link: https://ko-fi.com/thequirkybraincoach
You can also support the podcast by sharing this episode on your social media profiles if you found it genuinely useful. 
The resources I mentioned in the podcast are as follows:
Raymaker et al's (2020) paper on burnout: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32851204/
Katie Friedman ADHD coach: https://www.katiefriedmanassociates.com/
Heather Cook, autistic life coach (resources on burnout): https://www.autismchrysalis.com/
Getting support
If you are feeling very burned out and unwell, consider talking to a trusted friend or family member to process how you're feeling and strategise how to look after yourself. You may also consider making an appointment with your GP. Finally, sometimes therapists can be helpful in supporting you to talk about burnout and heal from it. I'd recommend getting a neurodivergent therapist who can empathise with some of your experiences and work with you in a way that supports your brain and natural ways of being/communicating in therapy. 
Transcript
100:00:15,579 --> 00:00:15,899Hi,
200:00:15,909 --> 00:00:19,440I'm Doctor Rebecca Jackson and I'm the quirky brain coach.
300:00:19,649 --> 00:00:22,729I'm a DH D in autistic and I'm a trained coach,
400:00:22,739 --> 00:00:26,170helping you with energy motivation and self regulation.
500:00:26,489 --> 00:00:28,170That's what this podcast is for.
600:00:28,180 --> 00:00:29,329Let's dive in.
700:00:29,420 --> 00:00:36,159So this episode is about burnout and I'm bringing you possibly the most ironic episode of the podcast yet,
800:00:36,169 --> 00:00:42,430a podcast on burnout that was delayed due to needing to take a fire break to avoid burnout.
900:00:42,700 --> 00:00:44,520We'll come back to fire breaks later.
1000:00:44,939 --> 00:00:45,220So,
1100:00:45,229 --> 00:00:46,020in this episode,
1200:00:46,029 --> 00:00:52,880I'll talk to you about what burnout is what it is in the context of autism and a DH D and the factors that lead to it,
1300:00:52,889 --> 00:01:04,660how I experienced burnout and how I noticed that I'm burned out the concept of the fire break and what we can do in line with our abilities and life circumstances to help ourselves recover.
1400:01:04,919 --> 00:01:05,400Here.
1500:01:05,410 --> 00:01:08,050I'll share my three step model for burnout recovery.
1600:01:08,660 --> 00:01:09,370As always,
1700:01:09,379 --> 00:01:13,419we'll end with a few reflective questions to help you understand your current relationship,
1800:01:13,430 --> 00:01:16,879to burnout and consider what you may choose to do to support yourself.
1900:01:16,889 --> 00:01:18,559If it's something that you want to do,
2000:01:18,870 --> 00:01:21,720I am gonna throw in a caveat here before we really dive in.
2100:01:21,730 --> 00:01:26,919Though burnout is caused in part by things that other people and organizations do.
2200:01:27,370 --> 00:01:28,319Moreover,
2300:01:28,330 --> 00:01:33,540dealing with burnout can in some cases make it more likely or worse.
2400:01:33,779 --> 00:01:40,709It's not fair that we sometimes feel like we have to make ourselves feel better when the cause of the burnout is not down to us.
2500:01:40,720 --> 00:01:43,819It's also not fair that we have to advocate for ourselves.
2600:01:43,830 --> 00:01:49,989Sometimes when we're already low on energy to make others meet their responsibilities safe in the workplace.
2700:01:50,440 --> 00:01:51,470In an ideal world,
2800:01:51,480 --> 00:01:52,470neurodivergent,
2900:01:52,480 --> 00:01:56,580people of all stripes would experience fewer external causes for burnout,
3000:01:56,809 --> 00:02:00,150but we're not quite in the ideal world yet as a result,
3100:02:00,160 --> 00:02:08,610sometimes to avoid burnout happening as much or as deeply part of that can be making others pick up their legal and moral responsibilities.
3200:02:08,770 --> 00:02:11,179It's not fair and I wish we didn't have to do it.
3300:02:11,270 --> 00:02:20,759But asking for help or advocating for your needs may play a part in reducing your likelihood of burnout self advocacy of some kind may be needed at some point.
3400:02:20,770 --> 00:02:24,839And I just wanted to flag that up in future episodes of the podcast.
3500:02:24,850 --> 00:02:35,059I do promise to share advice and scripts for self advocacy so that it can be done with minimum energy expenditure and the greatest chance of success in getting what you need from others.
3600:02:35,070 --> 00:02:41,429But the aim of the episode today is to help you learn about burnout and start to make sense of your own experience.
3700:02:41,440 --> 00:02:44,070So that's what we'll focus on this time.
3800:02:44,169 --> 00:02:46,490Let's start with what burnout is thought to be.
3900:02:46,500 --> 00:02:47,389Generally.
4000:02:47,470 --> 00:02:52,589Burnout is defined by the World Health Organization as an occupational phenomenon.
4100:02:52,940 --> 00:03:00,660People develop it as a result of chronic workplace stress and it shows up as feelings of energy depletion or exhaustion,
4200:03:00,850 --> 00:03:06,979increased mental distance from your job or feelings of cynicism and reduce professional efficacy.
4300:03:06,990 --> 00:03:07,419So,
4400:03:07,429 --> 00:03:09,339changes in your functioning at work.
4500:03:09,860 --> 00:03:10,339Now,
4600:03:10,350 --> 00:03:15,119the who says this is purely about work and not other domains of life.
4700:03:15,139 --> 00:03:15,919But of course,
4800:03:15,929 --> 00:03:20,539they would where do most adults experience chronic stress these days at work?
4900:03:20,550 --> 00:03:21,259However,
5000:03:21,270 --> 00:03:24,910whether or not your sources of chronic stress come from the workplace,
5100:03:24,919 --> 00:03:26,350you can get burnt out.
5200:03:26,419 --> 00:03:34,119It's just that the who thinks this is all about work because that's where most people experience it after the COVID lockdowns.
5300:03:34,130 --> 00:03:34,600However,
5400:03:34,610 --> 00:03:46,259researchers have started to note that other life factors can play a role note though that the definition does talk about changes in energy negatively charged emotions and a change in functioning.
5500:03:46,679 --> 00:03:50,820What it is important to say is that burnout isn't a medical diagnosis,
5600:03:50,839 --> 00:03:53,729you can't get officially diagnosed with burnout.
5700:03:54,110 --> 00:03:58,220I've heard psychologists talk about burnout as an umbrella condition.
5800:03:58,509 --> 00:04:02,929So there'll be some diagnoses potentially under that umbrella of the burnout.
5900:04:02,940 --> 00:04:07,330So someone in burnout might have official diagnoses of anxiety,
6000:04:07,339 --> 00:04:09,279depression or Anna Donia,
6100:04:09,289 --> 00:04:16,630which is like a loss of desire or wanting to do things but the actual label of burnout doesn't function as a medical diagnosis.
6200:04:16,640 --> 00:04:16,929Now,
6300:04:16,940 --> 00:04:17,589obviously,
6400:04:17,600 --> 00:04:22,410some of us do work in some capacity and though work might play a role in burnout,
6500:04:22,420 --> 00:04:27,299it isn't gonna be all of the stories safe for a DH D and autistic folks.
6600:04:27,320 --> 00:04:28,450Moreover,
6700:04:28,459 --> 00:04:34,220I feel and the research suggests some of us do work in some capacity.
6800:04:34,279 --> 00:04:36,549And though this might play a role in burnout,
6900:04:36,559 --> 00:04:38,549it isn't all of the story for,
7000:04:38,559 --> 00:04:38,730say,
7100:04:38,739 --> 00:04:40,720a DH D and autistic folks.
7200:04:41,140 --> 00:04:42,119Moreover,
7300:04:42,130 --> 00:04:52,720I feel and the research suggests that there are particular things linked to our neuro types that are different or need more consideration to help us avoid burnout or recover from it.
7400:04:56,540 --> 00:05:05,790So let's now turn to looking at burnout from the point of view of autism and I'm focusing on autism here because that's what most of the limited literature is on.
7500:05:05,799 --> 00:05:06,390However,
7600:05:06,399 --> 00:05:12,959it is starting to be realized that A DH D has experienced much of the same stuff and probably for the same reasons.
7700:05:12,970 --> 00:05:14,429So if you're not autistic,
7800:05:14,440 --> 00:05:18,589the info in the podcast should still be relevant and useful to you.
7900:05:18,600 --> 00:05:25,149You don't have to look for very long online to find autistic people talking about how and why they feel burned out.
8000:05:25,160 --> 00:05:42,782It sadly seems to be a common part of the lived experience for autistic people trying to exist in a capitalist society that focuses on productivity as a measure of somebody's worth in my view the most famous and useful paper on autistic burnout was published by autistic researcher,
8100:05:42,791 --> 00:05:46,122Professor Dora Raymaker and colleagues in 2020.
8200:05:46,152 --> 00:05:47,302If you want to look it up,
8300:05:47,312 --> 00:05:55,914it's called having all your resources exhausted beyond measure and being left with no clean up crew defined autistic burnout.
8400:05:56,264 --> 00:05:57,694But to save you the trouble,
8500:05:57,704 --> 00:06:03,033let me give you the key points on what burnout is as per that paper and what causes it.
8600:06:03,044 --> 00:06:10,713Raymaker and colleagues say that autistic burnout is different from workplace burnout and is different to say just depression.
8700:06:10,803 --> 00:06:15,014They say that autistic burnout is characterized by chronic exhaustion,
8800:06:15,123 --> 00:06:18,164loss of skills and reduced tolerance to stimulus.
8900:06:18,174 --> 00:06:18,713For example,
9000:06:18,723 --> 00:06:19,894sensory stuff.
9100:06:19,903 --> 00:06:20,813I'll come back to this.
9200:06:20,824 --> 00:06:22,925When I talk about my own experience.
9300:06:23,165 --> 00:06:28,446The authors also say that autistic people in the study reported negative impacts on health,
9400:06:28,455 --> 00:06:35,536their capacity for independent living and their quality of life in terms of what contributes to burnout.
9500:06:35,545 --> 00:06:37,526Though they highlighted some factors.
9600:06:37,536 --> 00:06:47,686They said that the chronic stress associated with autistic burnout can be affected by masking expectations from society and other people.
9700:06:47,696 --> 00:06:49,398And I would add from yourself.
9800:06:49,407 --> 00:06:52,118You'll see that when I talk about my own experience in a bit,
9900:06:52,127 --> 00:06:57,858I think they also highlighted actually managing things like disability or in my opinion,
10000:06:57,868 --> 00:07:00,358managing things like burnout life change,
10100:07:00,368 --> 00:07:06,127stress dismissal or gas lighting from others came up boundaries in self advocacy,
10200:07:06,138 --> 00:07:07,507not being in place,
10300:07:07,518 --> 00:07:09,947not taking break played a role in burnout.
10400:07:09,958 --> 00:07:14,437And the lack of external support was also identified as an issue.
10500:07:15,359 --> 00:07:23,570There is some good news though the paper also addressed some possible things that could help with avoiding or recovering from autistic burnout.
10600:07:23,579 --> 00:07:27,380And these were things that the participants discussed to themselves.
10700:07:27,390 --> 00:07:37,660So these suggestions come from other autistic people and the things that can help could be having supportive people around you attending to your needs.
10800:07:37,670 --> 00:07:40,190As an autistic person on masking,
10900:07:40,200 --> 00:07:45,735obviously with the caveat from me that you do that if it is safe and beneficial for you to do.
11000:07:45,746 --> 00:07:46,096So,
11100:07:46,105 --> 00:07:50,066they also highlighted using your natural strengths,
11200:07:50,096 --> 00:07:52,055adjustments in the workplace,
11300:07:52,066 --> 00:07:54,006having good mental health support,
11400:07:54,015 --> 00:07:57,915taking breaks and having time away from social interactions,
11500:07:58,026 --> 00:07:59,756having boundaries in place.
11600:07:59,765 --> 00:08:06,506And finally knowing what your patterns or tendencies are and making strategic decisions based on what you know,
11700:08:06,515 --> 00:08:09,376you need and why and that's what the formal research says.
11800:08:09,932 --> 00:08:16,682But you might also want to hear how an autistic and ADHD person has experienced real burnout in a bit more detail.
11900:08:16,842 --> 00:08:21,541And so I'll share what happened to me and see if it connects with your life experience.
12000:08:21,821 --> 00:08:24,832I had a huge burnout at the end of 2018.
12100:08:24,842 --> 00:08:26,701It changed my life massively.
12200:08:26,712 --> 00:08:32,041I cannot put into words how much it affected me and changed my life.
12300:08:32,151 --> 00:08:34,382But I'm going to try and give you a flavor of,
12400:08:34,392 --> 00:08:35,421of what happened.
12500:08:35,919 --> 00:08:43,578So I wasn't diagnosed as a DH D or autistic at the time and I just quote unquote thought I had poor mental health.
12600:08:43,588 --> 00:08:44,638Before that time,
12700:08:44,648 --> 00:08:45,588before I burned out,
12800:08:45,598 --> 00:08:52,218I had been finishing my phd and trying to secure a permanent job as an academic for almost two years now.
12900:08:52,229 --> 00:08:53,968Towards the end of my job search,
13000:08:53,979 --> 00:08:55,049I just gave up.
13100:08:55,059 --> 00:08:55,958I lost my nerve.
13200:08:55,968 --> 00:09:02,809I lost my confidence and I felt under pressure from society from myself to do what I thought I needed to do.
13300:09:02,818 --> 00:09:11,890And I also felt under pressure from the people around me who didn't hold back from telling me that it was time to get a proper job and stick at something for once in my life.
13400:09:11,900 --> 00:09:13,630And I felt this pressure be useful,
13500:09:13,640 --> 00:09:14,169be earning,
13600:09:14,179 --> 00:09:15,960be contributing to society.
13700:09:15,969 --> 00:09:17,650And as a result of that pressure,
13800:09:17,659 --> 00:09:19,890a lot of which was internal to be fair.
13900:09:19,900 --> 00:09:22,619I made perhaps the worst decision of my life.
14000:09:22,630 --> 00:09:28,849I decided to go into secondary school teacher training and it utterly broke me.
14100:09:28,900 --> 00:09:30,869I didn't truly want to do it.
14200:09:30,880 --> 00:09:34,840So the motivation and and the good reasons for doing it just work there.
14300:09:35,000 --> 00:09:40,419The university environment was noisy and the lectures were inaccessible in how they were set up.
14400:09:40,429 --> 00:09:47,070But the placement school did not follow the guidance on how to support trainees or the speed at which I was expected to do things.
14500:09:47,080 --> 00:09:47,539So,
14600:09:47,549 --> 00:09:49,359although I didn't know I was autistic,
14700:09:49,369 --> 00:09:55,960this was obviously kicking off some of my autistic tendencies towards fairness justice following the rules.
14800:09:55,969 --> 00:10:02,520And so on the placement school also had a five hour round trip commute each day with multiple changes,
14900:10:02,530 --> 00:10:13,000expectations from my uni or my mentors were communicated implicitly instead of explicitly and I didn't know who I was and I didn't know what I needed.
15000:10:13,010 --> 00:10:16,739So I didn't take recovery time and didn't feel that I could.
15100:10:16,750 --> 00:10:17,469And of course,
15200:10:17,479 --> 00:10:20,190without having that knowledge about who I was,
15300:10:20,200 --> 00:10:24,469I could not do anything really to craft my life to meet my needs,
15400:10:24,479 --> 00:10:32,609which we know from the research and from many lived experience accounts does help if you are able to do it even a little bit.
15500:10:32,840 --> 00:10:39,619So then there came the day that incident where we had the metaphorical straw that broke the camel's back.
15600:10:39,630 --> 00:10:45,159One day I had a session to run that was make or break for being able to stay on the program.
15700:10:45,169 --> 00:10:48,739They were going to decide if I had what it took to be a teacher.
15800:10:48,750 --> 00:10:53,020So everything was riding on me demonstrating skills in that session.
15900:10:53,030 --> 00:11:01,979And the day before I ended up staying up until 1 a.m. working on my slides and my lesson prep I was already feeling ill as if I was getting the flu.
16000:11:02,239 --> 00:11:04,469And about one ami did actually go to bed,
16100:11:04,479 --> 00:11:08,500but I got up at 5 a.m. and I could barely move.
16200:11:08,669 --> 00:11:10,580I just could not go to work,
16300:11:10,590 --> 00:11:15,369but I did try and go because I was feeling all of that internal and external pressure.
16400:11:15,380 --> 00:11:16,619So I got on the train,
16500:11:16,630 --> 00:11:18,059got halfway there,
16600:11:18,179 --> 00:11:22,059went to change trains and promptly threw up on the platform.
16700:11:22,479 --> 00:11:32,559I came home and I could tell the people in my personal life were disappointed with me that I got ill and couldn't do the make or break session.
16800:11:32,570 --> 00:11:38,169And obviously you can imagine how that didn't help and how I felt on that particular day.
16900:11:38,609 --> 00:11:41,440A short while later I left the course,
17000:11:41,450 --> 00:11:44,109but I was unable to function.
17100:11:44,119 --> 00:11:48,549And that marked the start of a six month period where I couldn't work.
17200:11:48,559 --> 00:11:50,190I barely left the house.
17300:11:50,330 --> 00:11:55,489I was eating terribly and not taking any care of my physical well being at all.
17400:11:55,710 --> 00:11:58,000I was just depressed and miserable and of course,
17500:11:58,010 --> 00:11:58,369that,
17600:11:58,380 --> 00:12:05,922that confidence loss that had led me to go on that PGC in the first place only got pounded and got worse.
17700:12:05,932 --> 00:12:07,562I had no confidence at all.
17800:12:07,672 --> 00:12:08,473And then finally,
17900:12:08,482 --> 00:12:12,942my misophonia and intolerance of other sensory stuff got worse.
18000:12:12,953 --> 00:12:16,263Even though I didn't really realize that was what had happened.
18100:12:16,343 --> 00:12:18,322Until a couple of years later,
18200:12:18,552 --> 00:12:28,213I went in a fairly short space of time from being a capable academic with a sharp mind to someone who could only manage to work one or two days a week in a cafe.
18300:12:28,223 --> 00:12:28,672Obviously,
18400:12:28,682 --> 00:12:29,692nothing wrong with that.
18500:12:29,822 --> 00:12:32,656I've worked in a cafe many times before and I like it.
18600:12:32,666 --> 00:12:34,156It's a good source of work,
18700:12:34,166 --> 00:12:37,356but it wasn't what I wanted to do with my life,
18800:12:37,505 --> 00:12:44,645but it did kind of link with that loss of confidence and it did lead to that disruption in my life and my life plans.
18900:12:44,656 --> 00:12:55,145It took me over six months to start getting better and that's actually fast for a big burnout based on what I see with my clients and other a DH D people.
19000:12:55,176 --> 00:13:04,469But I did get better and obviously I'm gonna share a bit today about what might help,
19100:13:04,479 --> 00:13:10,609But you can see that what happened to me is very close to what people reported in rainmaker and colleagues study.
19200:13:10,619 --> 00:13:14,250I would have been masking hugely even if I wasn't aware of it.
19300:13:14,260 --> 00:13:20,210And I would have faced a lot of stress and change and I would not have had much support for example.
19400:13:20,219 --> 00:13:20,820And of course,
19500:13:20,830 --> 00:13:22,659I also experienced exhaustion,
19600:13:22,669 --> 00:13:35,351changes in functioning and there was that changed relationship to the sensory stuff that the researchers describe what happened to me was horrible and I have no desire at all to repeat it.
19700:13:35,361 --> 00:13:37,221And what's really interesting actually,
19800:13:37,231 --> 00:13:40,211in the limited research that we have on autistic,
19900:13:40,221 --> 00:13:42,432people's experiences of burnout,
20000:13:42,442 --> 00:13:47,664many autistic people do experience a burnout as a traumatic experience.
20100:13:47,674 --> 00:13:49,004And so if you feel like that,
20200:13:49,013 --> 00:13:54,203I just want to validate that for you because I feel that my burnout did traumatize me,
20300:13:54,213 --> 00:13:56,213that was a traumatic experience for me.
20400:13:56,223 --> 00:14:01,104And I want to do whatever I can to kind of avoid that happening to me again.
20500:14:01,153 --> 00:14:05,614And also see if I can do anything to stop it happening for other people,
20600:14:05,624 --> 00:14:08,223I have no desire to repeat it.
20700:14:08,323 --> 00:14:11,216What happened to me was absolutely horrible.
20800:14:11,226 --> 00:14:18,255I found it really traumatic and actually in the limited literature that we have on autistic experiences of trauma,
20900:14:18,505 --> 00:14:25,995some autistic people in the research do report that their big burnout was a massively traumatic experience for them.
21000:14:26,005 --> 00:14:29,375And so if that's happened to you and that's your view,
21100:14:29,385 --> 00:14:31,335I just want to validate that for you.
21200:14:34,900 --> 00:14:37,130Burning out can be really traumatic.
21300:14:37,140 --> 00:14:44,109It's certainly what I feel and it's why I'm doing what I can to try and keep burnout out of my life.
21400:14:44,169 --> 00:14:49,169And it's also a driving factor in why I make resources like this podcast.
21500:14:49,179 --> 00:14:53,809I want to see if there's anything that I know or that I've experienced that can help other people.
21600:14:53,820 --> 00:15:00,252But the point is that it was absolutely horrible and I have no desire to repeat this however,
21700:15:00,263 --> 00:15:12,252by safely and on my own agenda and under my own steam by safely exploring and reflecting on what led up to my burnout and what the signs are that I'm getting burn out.
21800:15:12,453 --> 00:15:24,106I've been able to recognize some warning signals and I want to tell you my kind of warning signals in case they're similar to yours or it encourages you to notice your warning signs,
21900:15:24,116 --> 00:15:26,986I notice that if I get red in the face a lot,
22000:15:26,995 --> 00:15:30,346if I struggle more with annoying sounds and smells.
22100:15:30,395 --> 00:15:33,455If I'm much more irritable and snappy,
22200:15:33,466 --> 00:15:35,736that can be a sign that I'm getting burned out.
22300:15:39,599 --> 00:15:43,559And one really interesting thing is that if I'm pushing harder,
22400:15:43,570 --> 00:15:44,840if I'm working harder,
22500:15:44,849 --> 00:15:50,020if I'm ramping up and frantically trying to do more and to function,
22600:15:50,179 --> 00:15:54,739that can often for me be a signal that a crash is about to come.
22700:15:54,750 --> 00:15:59,000A burnout is about to come and that can be useful for you to pay attention to.
22800:15:59,039 --> 00:16:03,770And a last big one for me is that I struggle with sleep or more specifically,
22900:16:03,780 --> 00:16:04,900I find myself waking,
23000:16:05,002 --> 00:16:08,911got quite early and being quite anxious and I don't dream as much.
23100:16:08,971 --> 00:16:12,692So my sleep is not actually restorative for me.
23200:16:12,702 --> 00:16:19,262So those are some of the signs and signals that I have that I need to try and slow down and take a fire break.
23300:16:19,271 --> 00:16:19,742Now,
23400:16:19,752 --> 00:16:20,262of course,
23500:16:20,271 --> 00:16:22,771it is often easier said than done,
23600:16:22,822 --> 00:16:24,872as I've already mentioned at the beginning,
23700:16:24,882 --> 00:16:28,622a lot of the responsibility for burnout lies with other people,
23800:16:28,632 --> 00:16:29,682organizations,
23900:16:29,692 --> 00:16:30,291support service.
24000:16:30,403 --> 00:16:33,564This is it's not all your burden to shoulder.
24100:16:33,614 --> 00:16:36,463And I also recognize that I have a certain amount of privilege,
24200:16:36,473 --> 00:16:38,304but because I work for myself,
24300:16:38,314 --> 00:16:42,143it is OK for me to think about if and how I can take a break.
24400:16:42,153 --> 00:16:44,744So I do acknowledge that I do understand that.
24500:16:44,934 --> 00:16:54,734But I also believe that if you the conscious part of your mind is not able to make some kind of even a small decision to make something easier on yourself.
24600:16:54,744 --> 00:16:55,323At some point,
24700:16:55,333 --> 00:16:58,505your body and your mind will decide for you.
24800:16:58,515 --> 00:17:02,455If you think back to what I described about my burnout in 2018,
24900:17:02,466 --> 00:17:07,755my body and my mind absolutely decided if and when that was that burnout was going to happen,
25000:17:07,765 --> 00:17:10,066that wasn't a conscious decision on my part.
25100:17:10,076 --> 00:17:21,105I didn't take an active pause when it comes to burn out a fire break means putting in some kind of pause or change of circumstances that stops the burnout from hitting or from getting work.
25200:17:24,910 --> 00:17:25,890Let me try that again.
25300:17:25,900 --> 00:17:27,089With the fire breaks.
25400:17:27,339 --> 00:17:34,869I came across the concept of a fire break from the fantastic adhd coach Katie Friedman of Katie Friedman associates.
25500:17:35,109 --> 00:17:39,589The idea of a fire break comes from how we manage forest fires.
25600:17:39,800 --> 00:17:44,329The idea there is that you do something to the landscape to stop the fire from spreading.
25700:17:44,349 --> 00:17:53,670And when it comes to burn out a fire break means putting in some kind of pause or change of circumstances that stops the burnout from hitting or getting worse.
25800:17:53,739 --> 00:18:01,656Katie does like long walks allowing herself to tackle things one by one and spending time with valued friends.
25900:18:01,855 --> 00:18:09,735I've just had to put in a fire break for myself as I was starting to feel I was heading towards a big burnout and it was showing up with my body.
26000:18:09,786 --> 00:18:13,845So I found it helpful to treat my diverticulitis,
26100:18:13,855 --> 00:18:14,995take some baths,
26200:18:15,005 --> 00:18:16,605cuddle my dog more,
26300:18:16,615 --> 00:18:24,485cancel any meetings that were truly non-essential and talk to my partner and best friend to kind of face up to what I was experiencing,
26400:18:24,741 --> 00:18:30,651process my feelings and strategize what I could actually do to help myself with burnout.
26500:18:30,741 --> 00:18:34,972I also stepped away from social media and making content for a few days.
26600:18:35,171 --> 00:18:35,421Now,
26700:18:35,432 --> 00:18:35,911obviously,
26800:18:35,921 --> 00:18:41,121what you can do and what works on you or for you depends on your circumstances.
26900:18:41,202 --> 00:18:46,192So it isn't about replicating here exactly what Katie or I have tried.
27000:18:46,332 --> 00:18:49,202It's about finding the fire breaks that are accessible,
27100:18:49,212 --> 00:18:49,761safe,
27200:18:49,771 --> 00:18:58,920doable and workable for you in line with your genuine situation and in line with what's going on for you and what's possible for you in your life.
27300:18:59,050 --> 00:19:05,430So the fire break is one possible option from a general approach to how you might recover from burnout or avoid it.
27400:19:05,680 --> 00:19:11,560But I do have a three step process for helping my coaching clients avoid or recover from burnout.
27500:19:15,390 --> 00:19:19,829And I want to tell you about this three step process in case it helps you begin to do that,
27600:19:19,839 --> 00:19:22,810strategizing that Raymaker talked about in the paper.
27700:19:22,819 --> 00:19:27,189So you can think about what you could realistically and safely do for you.
27800:19:27,199 --> 00:19:31,339So I'm not the only neurodivergent coach who teaches a model like this.
27900:19:31,555 --> 00:19:37,944There's another amazing coach who takes a similar approach and makes a lot of videos and free workshop options on this topic.
28000:19:37,954 --> 00:19:41,454I can heartily recommend looking her up her work is fantastic.
28100:19:41,464 --> 00:19:42,814Her name is Heather Cook,
28200:19:42,824 --> 00:19:47,574the autistic life coach and her website is autism chrysalis dot com.
28300:19:51,459 --> 00:19:56,520But the way that I characterize the steps of the model is this step one,
28400:19:56,530 --> 00:19:58,329remove and produce.
28500:19:58,439 --> 00:20:03,959If there's anything in your life that you can cook completely or make easier or shorter,
28600:20:03,969 --> 00:20:04,920do so.
28700:20:05,229 --> 00:20:06,239Step two,
28800:20:06,569 --> 00:20:07,780rest and recover,
28900:20:07,790 --> 00:20:12,239allow your body and mind to rest and recover and become healthier and stronger.
29000:20:12,630 --> 00:20:13,770Step three,
29100:20:13,819 --> 00:20:20,560recharge and reenergize when you've been able to cut things out and have been able to rest and recover a little bit,
29200:20:20,709 --> 00:20:23,709you can go back to activities that take some energy.
29300:20:23,719 --> 00:20:25,089But in some sense,
29400:20:25,099 --> 00:20:26,329give you some energy,
29500:20:26,339 --> 00:20:27,270for example,
29600:20:27,280 --> 00:20:30,079deep interests or arts and crafts,
29700:20:30,339 --> 00:20:32,160that's the model itself.
29800:20:32,170 --> 00:20:32,849But of course,
29900:20:32,859 --> 00:20:36,569it's easier said than done and we do have to go back to my caveat.
30000:20:36,579 --> 00:20:38,599Not all of this is your responsibility.
30100:20:38,609 --> 00:20:38,880In fact,
30200:20:38,890 --> 00:20:46,160most of it won't be organizations and support services must eventually take over their part of the burnout burden.
30300:20:46,540 --> 00:20:46,959However,
30400:20:46,969 --> 00:20:48,709depending on your circumstances,
30500:20:48,719 --> 00:20:50,900they may not or cannot at this time,
30600:20:51,089 --> 00:20:52,800it's not fair and it's not right,
30700:20:52,810 --> 00:20:54,180but it could be true.
30800:20:54,390 --> 00:20:55,160Therefore,
30900:20:55,170 --> 00:20:56,329the first way you apply,
31000:20:56,339 --> 00:21:05,319this model is just thinking about what you would like to do for yourself at home just to give yourself a little bit of better quality of life in the day to day.
31100:21:08,819 --> 00:21:16,819So let's look at those three steps in a bit more detail and see if there's any kind of caveats or lookouts that would help you to implement that.
31200:21:16,829 --> 00:21:24,439So with step one removing and reducing your life circumstances will dictate what is possible and realistic to an extent.
31300:21:24,449 --> 00:21:27,989But there should be at least one or two things that can lighten the load for you.
31400:21:28,000 --> 00:21:33,722Even if it's just moving one appointment or getting a trusted friend to help you with the laundry for a week or two.
31500:21:33,732 --> 00:21:36,921Look for what is genuinely possible for step two,
31600:21:36,932 --> 00:21:37,972rest and recover.
31700:21:37,982 --> 00:21:40,881The lookout is to do what works for your quirky brain.
31800:21:40,891 --> 00:21:46,281I can't rest by being completely still and quiet due to my A DH D so often,
31900:21:46,291 --> 00:21:53,562I need to do yoga while listening to a very stimulating True Grime Podcast or take a bath while doing quite an involved meditation.
32000:21:53,572 --> 00:21:57,264So my brain something to do that lets my body recover,
32100:21:57,274 --> 00:22:01,784make resting work for you rather than being hard work.
32200:22:01,793 --> 00:22:02,803Step three,
32300:22:02,813 --> 00:22:04,284recharge and recover.
32400:22:04,333 --> 00:22:10,784I find that the hard part is not skipping to this stage too quickly or wanting to spend too much time there,
32500:22:10,793 --> 00:22:11,644too fast.
32600:22:11,654 --> 00:22:15,683And I think for a DH D impulsive types like myself,
32700:22:15,693 --> 00:22:20,706if we're feeling burned out and perhaps the dopamine stuff isn't working quite as we would need it to,
32800:22:20,715 --> 00:22:22,186this can be the temptation.
32900:22:22,196 --> 00:22:32,005So my initial answer to like stress related diverticulitis was to go star gazing as it makes me feel alive and energized was that the best thing for my physical body?
33000:22:32,026 --> 00:22:33,446Absolutely not.
33100:22:33,456 --> 00:22:39,235So a compromise was needed to allow my brain to get some juicy neurochemicals for a bit of a boost.
33200:22:39,245 --> 00:22:40,086And a kickstart,
33300:22:40,359 --> 00:22:45,140I allowed myself to instead watch stargazing videos and buy a cheap telescope.
33400:22:45,150 --> 00:22:47,619It's all a compromise and a work in progress.
33500:22:47,630 --> 00:22:56,099You are your own living experiment here in a way and you get to decide to a large extent what the best way forward is perhaps more than you realize.
33600:22:56,109 --> 00:22:58,170So that's the three step model,
33700:22:58,180 --> 00:23:03,670remove and reduce rest and recover and recharge and reenergize.
33800:23:04,000 --> 00:23:06,900So we have come a long way in this podcast.
33900:23:06,910 --> 00:23:09,270We've learned what workplace burnout is,
34000:23:09,349 --> 00:23:13,069what burnout is according to the specific case of autism,
34100:23:13,079 --> 00:23:15,030how I've experienced burnout,
34200:23:15,040 --> 00:23:21,854how firebreaks could help and a three step model that you may start using to support yourself in your own life at home.
34300:23:21,944 --> 00:23:24,545This is the part where you can pause the podcast,
34400:23:24,555 --> 00:23:33,854grab a journal and think about your own experiences at the moment and coach yourself on if and how you'd like things to be different for you with respect to burnout.
34500:23:33,864 --> 00:23:33,935So,
34600:23:33,944 --> 00:23:36,594pause here if you need to grab anything.
34700:23:36,814 --> 00:23:37,435OK.
34800:23:40,920 --> 00:23:43,239So here are the reflection questions.
34900:23:43,390 --> 00:23:44,260Number one,
35000:23:44,270 --> 00:23:48,180are you burned out based on the signs we've discussed in the podcast?
35100:23:48,380 --> 00:23:49,339Number two.
35200:23:49,349 --> 00:23:52,709What specific signs of burnout are you seeing in yourself?
35300:23:52,719 --> 00:23:54,760If so question three,
35400:23:54,790 --> 00:23:57,109what would you like to be different and why?
35500:23:57,349 --> 00:23:58,579Question four,
35600:23:58,829 --> 00:24:02,270what factors have led to you feeling burned out this time?
35700:24:02,729 --> 00:24:03,670Number five,
35800:24:03,880 --> 00:24:06,790if it would be possible to take a fire break soon,
35900:24:06,800 --> 00:24:08,750what would that fire break look like?
36000:24:08,760 --> 00:24:10,890And when could you realistically take it?
36100:24:11,109 --> 00:24:12,339Question six.
36200:24:12,510 --> 00:24:15,380When it comes to the three step model for burnout,
36300:24:15,469 --> 00:24:18,689what could you do to at least reduce or remove demands,
36400:24:18,699 --> 00:24:23,069appointments or social time from your day to day life in the short term?
36500:24:23,270 --> 00:24:24,109And finally,
36600:24:24,119 --> 00:24:24,949number seven,
36700:24:25,160 --> 00:24:30,109when could you begin to put in place some gentle and genuinely realistic changes?
36800:24:30,199 --> 00:24:33,339And what prompts or support do you need to help you do this?
36900:24:33,709 --> 00:24:34,319Hopefully,
37000:24:34,329 --> 00:24:41,050these reflective self coaching questions have helped you to see the first steps on the path to managing burnout in a way that works for you.
37100:24:41,229 --> 00:24:43,300As I say in future episodes,
37200:24:43,310 --> 00:24:49,420I'll address things like self advocacy and how to ensure organizations or other responsible parties,
37300:24:49,430 --> 00:24:52,849pick up their responsibility in the cause of burnout.
37400:24:53,020 --> 00:25:07,819But I wanted to focus on giving you some important initial information in the episode if you're not currently deep in a burnout and would like to work with a trained insured coach with lived experience on crafting your life to help you avoid burnout in future.
37500:25:07,839 --> 00:25:12,479You're very welcome to get in touch on your coach at the Quirky brain dot coach.
37600:25:12,489 --> 00:25:16,979I help a lot of people with this topic with good results in a fairly short amount of time,
37700:25:17,079 --> 00:25:21,020energy and Mojo management is one of my coaching specialisms.
37800:25:21,300 --> 00:25:23,699Thank you so much for listening to this episode.
37900:25:23,709 --> 00:25:29,880I hope it was useful if it did help and you feel it could help other A DH D or autistic people in your world.
38000:25:29,890 --> 00:25:32,479I'd appreciate you kindly sharing this around.
38100:25:32,489 --> 00:25:33,239Finally,
38200:25:33,250 --> 00:25:35,060if you wish to support this podcast,
38300:25:35,069 --> 00:25:41,135you can make a one off or monthly payment of just £3 on the coy platform form or coffee platform.
38400:25:41,155 --> 00:25:49,744My link is ko dash F I dot com forward slash the Quirky brain dot coach and any kind payments in support of this work,
38500:25:49,755 --> 00:25:52,824go to funding the podcast and the blog on my website.
38600:25:52,834 --> 00:25:52,944So,
38700:25:52,954 --> 00:25:58,145thank you very much for listening and see you next time on the Quirky brain coach podcast.
 
 
 

Episode 4: The Everest Base Camp Episode (what it was like, how I coped, and what I learned on the way)

The transcript for this episode is being prepared and will be available by mid-October at the latest.
I booked my trek through https://theadventurepeople.com/
My local tour provider was the amazingly helpful and inclusive Icicles Adventures https://www.iciclesadventuretreks.com/ (I cannot recommend them enough!)
If you have an ambition of achieving a big and difficult goal like going to Everest Base Camp and you'd like to work with a coach to help you achieve this in a way that works for you, you can ask for a free consult with me here https://thequirkybrain.coach/contact/
For any questions or feedback on the episode, email yourcoach@thequirkybrain.coach
Thank you for your patience with the sound quality and changing soundscapes on this podcasts. I was recording while I was in Nepal using my phone at times so your understanding is appreciated.
 

Episode 3: A road-map for breaking tasks down

Welcome to the podcast. This podcast is a "mini" episode which talks through a process for breaking tasks down and getting them done - eventually!
The podcast episode talks you through the below process diagram, so you may want to study it or print it to follow along with as you listen. 
This process isn't perfect (you can adopt and adapt bits of it to suit you) and it also isn't finished because...you also need energy and motivation to get things done. However, this is a good "starter for 10" if you have little confidence or skill in breaking down a bigger task to make sure you get it over the line on time. 
I hope the episode is useful, and reach out to me with any questions/if you need coaching on www.thequirkybrain.coach.
An auto-generated transcript is available after the diagram. Scroll down for this.
100:00:15,579 --> 00:00:16,239Hello,
200:00:16,250 --> 00:00:22,389I'm Dr Rebecca Jackson and welcome to a mini episode of the Quirky Brain coach podcast.
300:00:22,399 --> 00:00:33,509So I'm going to break with my traditional structure and offer you a really useful and impactful short episode on the process for breaking down bigger tasks.
400:00:33,650 --> 00:00:42,695So a lot of my clients know that in order to complete a more complex task that they might want to break that down somehow,
500:00:42,706 --> 00:00:44,636but they're not sure how to do it.
600:00:44,645 --> 00:00:46,015So in this episode,
700:00:46,026 --> 00:00:47,695that's slightly different,
800:00:47,706 --> 00:00:50,776I'm going to give you in the show notes,
900:00:50,785 --> 00:00:54,596a visual breakdown of what you can do,
1000:00:54,605 --> 00:01:06,332what you might choose to do to go through a road map for breaking down bigger tasks to make sure that they're more manageable that you feel like you've got control and that you're not overwhelmed and importantly,
1100:01:06,342 --> 00:01:22,531doing something like this allows you to stop stuff from becoming kind of urgent and last minute it allows you to do important but not urgent things uh in a way that prevents them becoming urgent and becoming kind of frantic and panicked for you.
1200:01:22,541 --> 00:01:28,202So what I'd advise you to do is get hold of the diagram and let me quickly talk you through it,
1300:01:28,211 --> 00:01:31,061pause the podcast here if that's what you need to do.
1400:01:31,910 --> 00:01:32,419OK.
1500:01:32,430 --> 00:01:33,959So you've got the diagram.
1600:01:33,970 --> 00:01:34,900Fantastic.
1700:01:34,910 --> 00:01:37,370So take a look at that as I talk you through.
1800:01:37,389 --> 00:01:41,660So we have to start off by getting clear on the big task.
1900:01:41,669 --> 00:01:46,120So let's suppose you're doing something like writing a research paper.
2000:01:46,269 --> 00:01:51,580So you need to be clear on what exactly you need to do by when and why,
2100:01:51,589 --> 00:01:54,019what is the outcome you need to get to.
2200:01:54,029 --> 00:01:59,980So it might be about working out which journal you're going to submit to how long the paper is,
2300:01:59,989 --> 00:02:06,669what you're trying to say in the paper and the impact of it and why it's important to you to get this research out there.
2400:02:06,680 --> 00:02:07,309And of course,
2500:02:07,319 --> 00:02:12,449you want to have a deadline that you're gonna commit to for getting that paper off to the journal.
2600:02:12,460 --> 00:02:18,240So get really clear on what you're doing when and why then in step two,
2700:02:18,250 --> 00:02:20,130you could check any deadlines.
2800:02:20,139 --> 00:02:22,199So you might have set one for yourself.
2900:02:22,210 --> 00:02:25,619But also if you're doing something like a special issue,
3000:02:25,750 --> 00:02:29,559it may be that actually a deadline has been given to you.
3100:02:29,570 --> 00:02:35,720And there are maybe even some sub deadlines for when you have to submit particular drafts or get revisions back.
3200:02:35,729 --> 00:02:43,860So it's helpful to know if there are any sub deadlines that you need to factor into your planning and breaking down process as well.
3300:02:44,309 --> 00:02:46,440Once you've got clear on your deadlines,
3400:02:46,449 --> 00:02:48,580it's time to move to stage three.
3500:02:48,589 --> 00:02:52,199So you need to brain dump all the sub tasks.
3600:02:52,210 --> 00:02:55,059So thinking about getting that article submitted,
3700:02:55,070 --> 00:02:56,279which is your big task,
3800:02:56,289 --> 00:02:58,720what are all the steps that you need to go through?
3900:02:58,729 --> 00:03:01,520They don't even have to be in an order at this point.
4000:03:01,529 --> 00:03:03,820And actually for creativity and lowering,
4100:03:03,895 --> 00:03:04,945you're overwhelmed,
4200:03:04,955 --> 00:03:08,104you probably don't want to do this in order just yet.
4300:03:08,115 --> 00:03:12,354But what are all the little itty bits that you would need to do?
4400:03:12,384 --> 00:03:13,384So writing,
4500:03:13,395 --> 00:03:14,264drafting,
4600:03:14,274 --> 00:03:15,304editing,
4700:03:15,315 --> 00:03:16,945dealing with revisions,
4800:03:16,955 --> 00:03:18,585checking your reference list,
4900:03:18,595 --> 00:03:27,929anything that you would need to do to get to that final outcome needs to go into your brain dump each of those things on that brain dump is actually a subtask.
5000:03:27,940 --> 00:03:32,570And so to make those sub tasks happen in a way that works and is comfortable,
5100:03:32,580 --> 00:03:36,139you need to get really clear on what the sub tasks are.
5200:03:36,149 --> 00:03:37,869So for any subtask to complete,
5300:03:37,880 --> 00:03:45,490ask again what you need to do and by when and it's also helpful to consider any resources or help that you need.
5400:03:45,500 --> 00:03:49,350So do you need to do some literature searching?
5500:03:49,360 --> 00:03:51,210Do you need to speak to your coach?
5600:03:51,240 --> 00:03:53,380Do you need to meet with a collaborator?
5700:03:53,695 --> 00:03:58,324Get really clear on those things and then move to step five estimate time for sub tasks.
5800:03:58,335 --> 00:03:59,744This can be really hard,
5900:03:59,755 --> 00:04:01,964especially if you have a DH D,
6000:04:01,975 --> 00:04:04,945we can have an interesting relationship with time.
6100:04:04,955 --> 00:04:14,145But actually estimating rough time periods for tasks is possible if you're able to draw on what you've done in the past and how long it took you.
6200:04:14,154 --> 00:04:18,404So if you know that the last time you wrote a paper of a similar length,
6300:04:18,415 --> 00:04:22,524it took you two days to do the edits for the final draft,
6400:04:22,535 --> 00:04:26,619then you might choose to schedule two days to do the edits for this draft,
6500:04:26,630 --> 00:04:27,459for example.
6600:04:27,470 --> 00:04:34,660And it can be helpful to talk to a collaborator or coach to help you pull out that intelligence about how long things might take you.
6700:04:34,670 --> 00:04:39,559So once you know what these sub tasks are and how long you think they might take,
6800:04:39,570 --> 00:04:49,220it's time to pick how you're going to prioritize because prioritizing is how we stop important but not urgent things from becoming on fire.
6900:04:49,230 --> 00:04:49,959Oh my God,
7000:04:49,970 --> 00:04:51,750I have to submit this tomorrow.
7100:04:51,760 --> 00:04:55,445So you have to think about how you're going to prioritize.
7200:04:55,454 --> 00:04:56,234In other words,
7300:04:56,244 --> 00:05:02,494judge what you're going to do and when and in what order you have to find a way of doing this that works for you.
7400:05:02,505 --> 00:05:04,095So it could just be a list,
7500:05:04,105 --> 00:05:06,114it could be some kind of matrix,
7600:05:06,125 --> 00:05:10,795it could be some kind of task management system like Asana or Trello.
7700:05:10,804 --> 00:05:18,015And you might just make one big list and pick things off according to what you think your interest or energy levels will be.
7800:05:18,024 --> 00:05:22,714But you have to have some kind of rough attempt at a system in place.
7900:05:23,149 --> 00:05:23,450Now,
8000:05:23,459 --> 00:05:25,940when you've decided how you want to prioritize,
8100:05:25,950 --> 00:05:27,480it's on to step seven,
8200:05:27,489 --> 00:05:34,149you actually prioritize and rank those sub tasks that get you to completion of the bigger task.
8300:05:34,160 --> 00:05:40,220So record your working set of priorities in some way so that you've got that to refer back to and work from.
8400:05:40,230 --> 00:05:41,130It could be a list,
8500:05:41,140 --> 00:05:41,709a mind map,
8600:05:41,720 --> 00:05:42,380a matrix,
8700:05:42,390 --> 00:05:43,250a diagram,
8800:05:43,260 --> 00:05:45,369a set of diary entries,
8900:05:45,380 --> 00:05:46,859whatever works,
9000:05:46,869 --> 00:05:51,690it's really key that what you choose here works for you and is accessible,
9100:05:51,700 --> 00:05:53,609safe and doable for you.
9200:05:53,880 --> 00:05:54,890Once you've done that,
9300:05:54,899 --> 00:05:56,119we can go to eight,
9400:05:56,130 --> 00:05:58,690which is determining your golden time.
9500:05:58,700 --> 00:06:03,209Golden time is one of my favorite things to bring into coaching conversations.
9600:06:03,220 --> 00:06:11,250And that is a piece of wisdom around the best time to do something hard is when you're best equipped to do the hard thing.
9700:06:11,260 --> 00:06:19,707So your golden time is the time of day on average that your brain works best and you feel most motivated and most energized for me.
9800:06:19,717 --> 00:06:22,157I wake up in the morning like the Duracell bunny.
9900:06:22,166 --> 00:06:25,187So that is about 6 a.m. to 9 a.m. for me.
10000:06:25,196 --> 00:06:27,707So I do my hard things first thing in the morning.
10100:06:27,717 --> 00:06:28,587But for you,
10200:06:28,596 --> 00:06:31,427your executive functioning could for example,
10300:06:31,437 --> 00:06:39,187be best later in the day or you may enjoy writing on a Sunday afternoon when you're not stressed and you don't have commitments.
10400:06:39,196 --> 00:06:44,164The bottom line is you have to determine your golden time for doing hard things,
10500:06:44,174 --> 00:06:45,924then you can move to step nine,
10600:06:45,933 --> 00:06:50,243which is Dior harder tasks for golden times.
10700:06:50,253 --> 00:06:50,803Ok.
10800:06:50,813 --> 00:06:52,403So it's a bit cheesy.
10900:06:52,414 --> 00:06:54,183It's a bit dad coaching here.
11000:06:54,194 --> 00:06:56,683But I always say that we do what we diaries,
11100:06:56,694 --> 00:07:06,781the literature on habit change and behavior change tells us that we do actually need prompts and reminders and commitments to help us to get things done a lot of the time.
11200:07:06,790 --> 00:07:07,781So once you know,
11300:07:07,790 --> 00:07:10,781your golden time and the best time to do hard things,
11400:07:10,790 --> 00:07:16,700that's when you need to go to the diary and actually put in a time slot to do those hard things.
11500:07:16,710 --> 00:07:19,980And you can refer to your notes from stage five here.
11600:07:19,990 --> 00:07:28,601You can actually look at how long you think certain tasks will take and use that information to help you put the right amount of time into the diary.
11700:07:28,829 --> 00:07:31,359Then it's the step 10 here.
11800:07:31,369 --> 00:07:34,040It's diar when you'll do the easier tasks.
11900:07:34,049 --> 00:07:39,279So Dior easier tasks for when you think you can cope with them or naturally want to do them.
12000:07:39,290 --> 00:07:42,600So if you know that you're often bored on a Saturday afternoon,
12100:07:42,609 --> 00:07:43,369and actually,
12200:07:43,380 --> 00:07:50,540you're quite interested in this project and you could pick off some easy tasks because you'll be fairly relaxed and motivated,
12300:07:50,549 --> 00:07:57,279then choose that time to do the easy stuff and have some quick wins and really feel like you're progressing quickly.
12400:07:57,290 --> 00:07:57,609Now,
12500:07:57,619 --> 00:07:58,100of course,
12600:07:58,179 --> 00:07:59,429we're all a bit different,
12700:07:59,440 --> 00:08:05,519some parts of this process will be easier or harder for you or more enjoyable or less enjoyable for you.
12800:08:05,529 --> 00:08:05,950So,
12900:08:05,959 --> 00:08:07,470as I would always say,
13000:08:07,480 --> 00:08:08,809pick what works,
13100:08:08,829 --> 00:08:10,829discard what doesn't work,
13200:08:10,839 --> 00:08:12,760but at least you have a road map.
13300:08:12,769 --> 00:08:14,790At least you have a process now to say,
13400:08:14,799 --> 00:08:15,239OK,
13500:08:15,250 --> 00:08:16,750this is what I could do.
13600:08:16,760 --> 00:08:18,309I'm gonna do these bits.
13700:08:18,320 --> 00:08:20,950I'm not gonna try this bit of the process.
13800:08:20,959 --> 00:08:22,910You can really make this your own.
13900:08:22,920 --> 00:08:26,910This is yours to use in a way that will help you get your projects done,
14000:08:26,920 --> 00:08:28,369help you to finish things,
14100:08:28,380 --> 00:08:31,760help you to get your research tasks over the line.
14200:08:31,769 --> 00:08:32,190Now,
14300:08:32,200 --> 00:08:32,890of course,
14400:08:32,900 --> 00:08:35,809there is more to be done beyond stage 10.
14500:08:35,830 --> 00:08:37,099Quite obviously,
14600:08:37,109 --> 00:08:48,419I don't need to tell you that you then actually need to do the things and that's a whole other podcast on motivation and how to create energy and motivation to get things done.
14700:08:48,429 --> 00:08:52,419But you can always reach out to ask me your questions about motivation.
14800:08:52,429 --> 00:08:53,219And of course,
14900:08:53,229 --> 00:08:56,799I will do multiple podcasts on motivation in the future,
15000:08:57,020 --> 00:08:58,049but there you have it.
15100:08:58,059 --> 00:09:02,809That's my mini episode on a process for breaking down bigger tasks.
15200:09:02,820 --> 00:09:03,770If you need me,
15300:09:03,780 --> 00:09:10,400you can reach me on your coach at the Quirky brain dot coach or you can visit the Quirky brain dot coach.
15400:09:10,409 --> 00:09:21,169You can also sign up for my newsletter at the website and you can find me across all of the social media platforms as well apart from tiktok but I'll get round to that eventually.
15500:09:21,179 --> 00:09:22,250I am sure.
15600:09:22,260 --> 00:09:22,500So,
15700:09:22,510 --> 00:09:29,130thank you very much for listening to this episode of the Quirky Brain Coach podcast and I will see you next time.
 

Episode 2: Emotional regulation and neurodivergence

Find out what emotional regulation is, how it might show up for neurodivergent people, and what you can start to do about it if you choose. This episode also includes my own experiences and feelings of shame around this topic, and offers you some reflection questions to work out where you're at with your relationship with your feelings. 
If you want to talk about this topic with me further, email yourcoach@thequirkybrain.coach. 
Approximate transcript
Hello and welcome to the Quirky Brain Coach podcast. I am your host, Dr Rebecca Jackson. I’m a neurodivergent coach and coaching research practitioner. I champion you to build zest, fire up your executive functions and make progress with your projects, ideas, motivation and wellbeing. 
On this episode, we’re talking about emotional regulation – and dysregulation. We’ll find out what it is, how it shows up for some neurodivergent people, and what we can do to connect with and help ourselves to be less at the mercy of our emotions – if we choose. Along the way, I’ll tell you about my own experiences too.
Let’s dive in with what emotional regulation is…
If we go to the science, then emotional regulation can be thought of as what happens when we
Recognise what emotions we are feeling
Notice why we are having them
Consider if/when we’d like to have more or less of that emotion sometimes
Do something to influence our environment, our wellbeing, our health, or our relationships to allow us to shift, influence, increase or decrease particular emotions
An example of emotional regulation in action might be that I notice that I feel angry when I am in an office. I realise after reflection that I am too hot in the office building. I therefore decide to wear different clothes next time. I am not as angry because I managed my sensory load. I learn that making sensory changes helps me to influence my feelings rather than being at their beck and call. That’s what it can look like.
I want to be super clear though…
All emotions are good. All emotions are helpful and bring us useful clues about what’s going on for us and changes we might choose to make in our lives. I am grateful when I feel anger, for example, as it tells me I have an unmet need or a boundary has been crossed and that I may choose to do something about what I’m having flagged up to me by my brain.
For this reason, while I’ll be talking to you about being able to influence your emotions or being able to have more or fewer of certain emotional states, this is only an invitation to create gentle and healthy change, and it’s not about demonising certain emotions or looking to block them out or suppress them completely. We have to feel the feelings sometimes, I think!
In any case, emotional regulation boils down to being able to detect your emotions, choose whether to have a bit more or a bit less of them in certain situations, and then being able to make changes to help that happen in time. What’s it got to do with neurodivergence, though?
As I’m autistic and ADHD and these are my areas of specialism, I’ll stick with those conditions in this episode.
Emotional regulation is often a huge part of life for ADHD or autistic people, especially when we notice that it’s difficult for us or causing us problems.
In my own life, before I had my diagnoses and before I was confident and skilled to support my own mental health, I was extremely emotionally dysregulated.
My emotions just happened to me. I’d get all these big and scary or unpleasant emotions that would blindside me and overwhelm me and before you know it, I would just be having a meltdown, a shutdown or a stand-up argument with a loved one. And I could go from 0 to 60 in 1 second flat. I’d be fully inflamed and psychologically aroused before I’d even had a feeling, let along having a chance to think about how I’d like to respond.
This was so hard for me. It caused me great shame. When I was overtaken by my emotions, I said and did things that were deeply out of alignment with my strengths, and values and what I think is good, right and important in the world. I am still working on that deep shame and I am sure that some of you lovely people are too. It is possible to work on shame and I promise I’ll do another episode on that. Just know for now that I empathise with you if you do feel this, and I am sending you some compassion that you truly deserve through this podcast!
Why is it, though, that we may get so dysregulated as neurodivergent folks?
With ADHD, a lot of us are quite impulsive and can be quick to respond. It can also be harder for us to stop what we’re doing in the moment and choose a different option – the impulsivity plays a role, and it’s why it’s so hard to just “stop and count to 10”, like some of the neurotypical advice might suggest. Inattentiveness can mean that we do not notice our emotions or pay attention to what is bothering us so that by the time we notice we’re having a feeling and responding to it, it can already be too late to put the breaks on.
With autism, some of us have alexithymia, meaning it’s hard to recognise the mental and bodily signals that suggest we’re having an emotion. We may also struggle to name our feelings. Add to that the fact we can often have big feelings due to sensory overwhelm or the effects of low energy, and you have a recipe, again, for a person who does not know what they feel or why until it is almost too late to do anything about it.
These are just some of the ways emotional dysregulation can show up for us. Everyone’s a little bit different so the invitation for you is to think about what you personally struggle with – or not – and consider what your emotion profile is like. A lot of people find that once they understand how their neurodivergence creates a tendency in them towards emotional dysregulation, they can be a lot more compassionate and understanding towards themselves. You are not a bad person just because you experience challenges emotionally.
The bottom line is, though: if you know what emotional regulation is and know that you struggle with it in certain ways, then that gives you useful intelligence about what – if anything – you might choose to influence your relationship with your emotions.
So let me ask you: do you want to be like a salmon or a jellyfish when it comes to your feelings?
I’ve just come back from snorkelling in the South of France. Incidentally, that was great for my emotional regulation because it gave me lots of opportunities for positive sensory experiences and chance to create lots of positive emotions for myself. But I digress!
While I was down in the water, I saw a lone jellyfish. It was stuck in a cove, and it was trapped by the current. It was being buffeted about by the waves, and was at the mercy of where the currents took it. The jellyfish had no influence over its environment or what happened to it.
This reminded me of a powerful coaching analogy, taught to me by my dear friend Alison Matthias, the director of Professional Sales Academy. (I must get her on this podcast!) Anyway…
Alison always used to ask me, when talking about my personal challenges: Becci, do you want to be like a salmon or a jellyfish?
Obviously, my first reaction was what does this all have to do with sealife?
Alison explained that salmon have a mission. They have a goal of avoiding bears to swim to the top of the river to spawn. They have a goal, they try to follow a path, they try to dodge challenges, and they try to respond to their environment in the best way that gets them to where they want to be.
Alison said that this is the exact opposite to jellyfish. Life does not happen to the salmon. It happens to life. With the jellyfish, everything is happening to it. It only travels if the waves make it move. It has no say over the direction it travels. It only gets to eat if some unfortunate sardine accidentally happens to float past. It has no goals, no direction, and no way of influencing what happens to it.
As neurodivergent people and, probably, as late-diagnosed neurodivergent people in particular, it’s possible that we have been more like the jellyfish than the salmon when it comes to having the relationship we want with our emotions.
This is a description and not a judgement. It’s just about acknowledging where we are at. It’s certainly true of me. It’s not your fault though. If your parents and caregivers and friends were also neurodivergent – and there’s a high chance this is the case – then you may not have explicitly or implicitly been taught to notice, name and react to your emotions in particular ways. Again, this is all said very compassionately, and reflects my life growing up also.
Essentially, what I am saying is that the waves of emotions can just make us be like the jellyfish because we haven’t yet learned how to notice what’s happening and make a change. But the crucial word is yet. You can learn something to some degree usually in a way that works for you that helps you feel more of how you want to, or respond more in the ways you’d like to your emotions.
So if you want to be more like a salmon than a jellyfish, let me start you off with what you can think about…
This starts with some wisdom on regulating yourself at the right time and in a way that might just work…
A lot of my coaching clients ask me for ways to help them choose a different response to an emotion in the moment.
Or they might say that they have lots of meltdowns and they need to learn – right now to start in the next day or two – exactly what they can do right away to stop or catch these things and get a hold of their feelings.
Of course, if this is the long-term goal, as a coach, I’d always support you to get there and do a lot of work on practical and brain-friendly ways to respond to your feelings in the moment.
However, a key mistake that people make is that they think they can deal with in-the-moment immediately and easily and, therefore, they think that the place to start working on emotional regulation is there and then when you’ve already become dysregulated.
Now, if, like me, you only started regulating your emotions very recently and, say, you’re in your 30s, 40s or 50s and if, like me, you’ve also only just started to work with your emotions and keeping yourself calmer and happier then I need to tell you that trying to regulate yourself right in the moment is probably not the smart place to start.
In coaching, I want you to have many small successes, at least at first, to help you build up your skills and confidence. This means I am never going to knowingly set you up to fail or throw you into the lion’s den of setting homework around manging what happens in meltdowns when you still have other things to do around just even knowing what you feel and why. So what I’m doing here is managing your expectations, and helping you to self-coach smart, rather than self-coach harder and set your self up for failure or frustration.
The key to being able to regulate yourself during or in preparation for challenging situations is to work on what happens BEFORE.
When I work with clients on how they want to regulate themselves, we always go through a process of looking at what happens before, during and after situations where the person is dysregulated. And this always begins with gathering lots of rich intelligence about why and how the person has particular emotional responses and reactions in the first place.
If you don’t know why you’re feeling how you feel, you’ll not be able to recognise it in the moment and take a different course. You’ll also end up going into certain situations or interactions that are more likely to bring about meltdowns or shutdowns because you have not worked out what supports or adjustments or boundaries you need to have a better experience.
As such, we always look at the lead up to a burst of anger or a meltdown or a deep sadness and find out what caused it and why.
We might find out
You were tired
You had sensory overload
Your basic needs weren’t met e.g. you were hungry and needed the toilet
Your boundaries were disrespected
You’d not been exercising recently and had pent up energy that was making you react quickly
The point is…we won’t know what we find and what’s causing certain feelings in you if we don’t look at the build up and the lead up to certain emotions and your reactions. And once we know, we can work with coaches, therapists, buddies or journals to find out how to be more like a salmon than a jellyfish when it comes to emotions.
I hope I’ve convinced you that the first step could be for you to reflect on this…and if you agree, then I invite you to grab your journal or a piece of paper and go through some self-coaching questions to round off the episode.
So when you’re ready, here are the questions you can think about to coach yourself:
When it comes to your emotions, are you more like a salmon or a jellyfish at the moment?
In terms of your emotions and how you recognise and respond to them, what do you find difficult? And what is going well or is less-challenging, if anything?
Thinking about times when you have been dysregulated emotionally, what do you notice about the before? Are there any particular situations, people, triggers or sensory things that contribute to your emotional dysregulation?
Based on what you’ve learned in the podcast, how would you like things to be different for you when it comes to your emotions?
Finally, what or who could help you with this work? Who could support you? What could you do, practice, learn about or talk about to help you on building the relationship you want with your emotions?
And of course, don’t forget, emotional regulation is something I work on with most of my clients at some point during our time together. I have a lot of personal experience and psychological knowledge around this topic, and I’m confident I can help you feel more regulated emotionally if you need so reach out to me for a consult if you’d like to know more about how I can help.
So that’s been the first of probably many episodes about emotional regulation.
We’ve talked about what emotional regulation is, and how and why it can be an area of need for neurodivergent people, and using the story of the salmon and the jellyfish, I hope I’ve helped you to think about what kind of relationship you want to have with your emotions. Finally, by inviting you to think about what happens BEFORE you become dysregulated, you may have started to get some initial clues about how to engineer your life to have more of the emotions you want to feel.
If this podcast has been helpful to you, I’d be so grateful if you share to it across social networks so that more of us can get the support I’m trying to provide. Every share could support another quirky brain in need of encouragement and practical info.
If you’d like to work with me, email yourcoach@thequirkybrain.coach for a consult.
But until next time, stay beautifully, unashamedly and authentically quirky!
 

Episode 1: Neurodivergence and mental health

In this episode, I talk about
- the relationship between neurodivergence and mental health
- the support on offer
- when certain supports or coaching may/may not be appropriate for you
- some reflection questions to help you think about your mental health needs and how you may choose to act on these
- my own experiences along the way
Transcript: A transcript is available via your caption option, depending on your podcast platform. 
Sources of support
Shout!
NHS Anxiety & Depression Screener
Find NHS urgent/crisis helpline service
Free2BeMe Therapy Services
 

Introducing myself and The Quirky Brain Coach Podcast

Intro episode transcript:
I’m Dr Rebecca Jackson and I am the Quirky Brain Coach. I just wanted to take a moment to introduce myself and my podcast.
I’m ADHD and autistic and I’m a trained coach who researches and specialises in coaching for quirky brains like ours. 
I champion you to build zest, fire up your executive functions and make progress with your projects, ideas, motivation and wellbeing. 
I live with my quirky brain dog, Mossy the cockapoo and I enjoy hiking, travel, solo role-playing games, languages and meditation. 
I was diagnosed as autistic towards the start of the pandemic, and ADHD in 2022 after having persistent mental health difficulties that I couldn’t explain as a natural reaction to my life circumstances alone. 
I’ve been a trained and insured coach for a while now. I eat, sleep and breathe the art and science of coaching. You could say it’s my autistic deep interest!
I have also had some coaching in my time. I have found coaching and self-coaching to be instrumental in helping me to
Understand who I am
Understand what I need
Build up my energy and wellbeing
Work with my brain and my executive functions
Meet my goals and get things done that are truly important to me (but don’t worry, toxic positivity and toxic productivity are banned in my coaching practice, so we won’t have any of that here!)
At this time, coaching is not as accessible to many neurodivergent people as it should be. Furthermore, working with a coach is an investment and you have to be certain that you want to try it out. And, actually, for those who need to or prefer to, there’s a lot you can do for yourself or through journalling…and that’s why the podcast is here. You can have a taster of coaching, and see how far you can get by yourself, if you prefer.
We have within us the power to support ourselves with suggestions, encouragement and guidance. In the Quirky Brain Coach podcast episodes, I’ll talk to you about a concept, how it relates to my life, and ask you how it shows up for you. Then, I’ll introduce a model, reflection questions or a tip for you to try out so you can work on that concept yourself if you’d like to. 
I myself am excited to meet you through the podcast. You can search for “The Quirky Brain Coach” page on Facebook or join my newsletter from www.thequirkybrain.coach. If you have a concept or challenge you’d like me to make an episode about, email your suggestion to yourcoach@thequirkybrain.coach
Thank you so much for listening and I look forward to speaking to you soon! Take care!